Episode 119 | Posted on

The Psychology Behind Conversion Rate Optimization with Tim Ash

Marketers focus on taking actions that will result in increased conversions. Tim Ash joins me today to talk about optimizing and increasing conversions through compelling customer experiences. We used to think people made conscious buying decisions. We now know that it’s largely the other way around. People make unconscious decisions when it comes to making purchases or choosing products or services. Tim shares how to use this information to help you optimize your conversion rate and grow your business presence.

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This Week’s Guest:

We used to think that people would make rational decisions if they were equipped with the right tools and knowledge. Marketers thought that people primarily made conscious buying decisions. We now know that it’s largely the other way around. People make unconscious decisions when it comes to making purchases or choosing products or services. The three things it takes for a behavior or action to occur are motivation, ability, and a trigger.


Tim Ash joins me in this conversation to dig deeper into this topic and to explain how it applies to marketing and conversion rates. His company, SiteTuners, focuses on optimizing all facets of business for conversion. He’s also the founder of Digital Growth Unleashed, a conference for those interested in fully optimizing their online business. In this episode, he’ll offer many powerful tips and strategies to help you optimize your conversion rate and grow your business presence.


Find Out More About Tim Here:

Tim Ash
Tim Ash on Facebook
Tim Ash on LinkedIn
Digital Growth Unleashed


In This Episode:

  • [01:13] – Tim starts things off by talking about the best practices and optimization of conversion rate from the evergreen angle.
  • [02:25] – What are the differences between neuromarketing and behavioral economics?
  • [04:32] – Tim discusses how to structure online marketing to take advantage of the human tendency to opt for immediate gratification and discount future pain.
  • [07:09] – What Stephan has just been saying reminds Tim of BJ Fogg’s theory that states that you need three things for any behavior to occur.
  • [10:17] – Tim relates what he and Stephan have been discussing to the gaming industry, which he points out is now bigger than Hollywood.
  • [13:44] – Stephan brings us back to the idea of the trigger, the habit, and the reward. The way to replace the habit is to scramble the trigger, he explains.
  • [15:49] – Stephan discusses being at a conference and optimizing the process for getting as much of the audience as possible to whip out their phones and opt in.
  • [19:54] – Tim responds to Stephan’s example for how to get people to opt in, relating Stephan’s strategy to the theory he previously described by BJ Fogg.
  • [22:51] – Does Tim think it’s important to get someone’s first name, or that it’s better to just ask for an email address? He generally asks for the email address first.
  • [24:42] – Tim gives copies of his book away at his session, and recommends having physical copies available as a form of branding.
  • [25:33] – We learn whether Tim used any of his neuromarketing magic to get his impressive Amazon reviews. He and Stephan then discuss reviews in general, and whether it’s acceptable to ask for them.
  • [30:13] – Stephan returns to the concept of giving away books, using Tony Robbins’ strategy as an example.
  • [31:33] – What are Tim’s thoughts on how to optimize the opportunity of giving something physical away with a free-plus-shipping offer?
  • [35:04] – When the first edition of Tim’s book came out, it included several special offers. He found that they weren’t very effective.
  • [39:41] – Why did Tim feel the need to create a whole conference, Digital Growth Unleashed, when he already had a successful agency and a book?
  • [44:22] – Tim responds to Stephan’s question about which tool is the most important from a conversion standpoint.
  • [50:03] – Tim’s company has used SalesForce, but switched to Infusionsoft.
  • [51:03] – What are some of Tim’s favorite tips, tactics, and strategies for landing page optimization?
  • [56:39] – Tim offers some ways to get in touch with him for listeners who want to hear or learn more, or potentially work with him.

Links and Resources:

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

☑ Take note of the three things that must happen at the same time for a conversion to occur: motivation, ability and trigger.

☑ Try different conversion optimization practices. Combine a few different strategies to see what works best for my offer or product.

☑ Study psychology to understand people’s motivations. This will help me come up with a better approach to get conversions.

☑ Include instant gratification in my conversion process. Use something like a free offer to inspire people to take action without any costs.

☑ Use payment plans to entice potential customers to purchase high-priced services. This will lower barriers and help make my customers commit.

☑ Offer my potential customers a free one-month subscription so they can get familiar with my service.

☑ Ask first-time subscribers for their payment details and let them know they will be billed after the first month if they don’t unsubscribe. Don’t forget to notify subscribers three days before charging them.

☑ Keep my triggers as simple as possible. Triggers are effective when they are easy to understand.

☑ Strategically design my website by adding elements to entice my viewers. Visual representation plays a big role in getting conversions.

☑ Focus on making my site convenient to visitors. Make sure they get what they want without any hassle.


S: Today’s episode number 119, about conversion rate optimization or CRO, is gonna make you more dough. You can use what you learn here to increase your sales, leads, opt-ins, or all of the above. Here to make it all possible is Tim Ash, today’s guest. He’s the author of Landing Page Optimization and the CEO of SiteTuners which boasts clients like Sears, Google, Expedia, Facebook, American Express, Canon, and Nestle. Tim, it’s great to have you on the show.


T: Thanks, Stephan. Always a pleasure.


S: Let’s talk about optimization of conversion rate but from kind of the Evergreen sort of angle because there’s so much technology and there’s so much stuff that’s evolving so quickly. Just like in SEO, everything is evolving quickly but there’s some tried and true best practices that marketers should be aware of. Let’s start there. What would be some of those most important Evergreen best practices?


T: Let’s talk about evergreen and best practices separately. Best practices are things that work most of the time. There’s no such as that in the sense that you should always test because there’s so many differences in your audience, our brand strains, your value proposition, the call to action you’re asking to take. In a particular circumstance, it’s not clear which ‘best practices’ are gonna work. Sometimes they’re counterproductive or if you combine them they cancel each other out. You should always just innovate with the presentation of stuff. But I’d like your evergreen angle. I think that among internet marketers, there’s too much of an emphasis on the latest tools and tricks. There’s some really, really cool research in neuromarketing, behavioral economics, we’re finally kind of unlocking the brain and getting the fundamental biases that are there in all people. You can always take advantage of those or at least it’s good to have a really good grounding in those. That’s what I would say.


S: What’s the difference between neuromarketing and behavioral economics? I’ve heard about neuromarketing. In fact, we’ve had Roger Dooley on the show talking about neuromarketing but behavioral economics, what’s that?

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